Comments on: Photo Biz: Do Your CODB to Create Your Pricing

By: Jose Tan

Jose Tan — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 10:07:23 +0000

Lincoln,

Thank you so much for putting this down in your blog. It have given me another perspective on how to do my pricing. Really helpful even though I am based here in Thailand where the market is swamped with photographers who ask for ridiculously low fee and clients who don’t have an idea or don’t understand how things should be priced. Anyway, thanks again!

Jose Tan

By: Lincoln Barbour

Lincoln Barbour — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 20:29:52 +0000

Hey Kevin, everyone has different lifestyles that their business needs to pay for. If you can get by on less, then by all means go for it. The $94,0000 includes $44,000 dollars of overhead (like camera equipment, computer equipment, software, cell phone, advertising, travel, meal, repairs, rental, and so forth. Overhead is any expense you can’t bill for on a job. So any job you get, your creative fee has to cover your salary + overhead. Add those two up and divide by the number of days you want to shoot in a year, you have CODB. If you shoot less than your CODB, you’re operating at loss. And to make up for it, you have to bill more on other jobs or shoot more days. Personally, I’d rather work less days and take jobs that pay better and are more fulfilling.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:13:49 +0000

Look, all this sounds very nice, but let’s get real. The reality for most photographers is make enough to eat and put a roof over their head or get a “real” job. That means WHAT DOES IT COST TO SURVIVE. Sorry, but $94000.00 a year is NOT what it cost to survive. $500.00 for a 1br apt and $10.00 a day for food and a bus pass will get done. You maybe laughing but sorry that is YOUR COMPETITION and they are willing to “LOSE MONEY” in order to live as a working photographer — and also they are shooting at lot more than 4 days a month at $250.00 a day … Don’t get me wrong 50K a year + all expenses paid is a wonderful fantasy that is a reality for a few, but the idea that you are LOSING MONEY if you don’t make that is bull. You are ONLY LOSING MONEY IF YOU ARE SITTING HOME AND NOT SHOOTING AND NOT GETTING PAID. If you are out shooting and getting paid you are NOT losing money.

By: craig

craig — Wed, 28 Mar 2012 23:38:07 +0000

This is a good basic system. We also track an internal metric of “effective hourly rate” which is basically the cost of the shoot (minus expenses) divided by an estimate of how long it will take to see all the way to delivery including the post.

I track this on a spreadsheet that segment clients and bids by what kind they are (local, regional, national), keeping in mind the usage. I track bids won/lost/ignored. Patterns tend to emerge with enough data, ie around here, local clients will rarely pay an EFH over $125/hr no matter what the usage is.

It doesn’t do so well for national campaigns, but for the weekly bread & butter.

By: jane

jane — Mon, 26 Mar 2012 19:45:07 +0000

Thanks Eduardo for asking those questions and thanks Lincoln for the answers. It helps clarify some questions I had in my mind as well when I read it.

By: Lincoln Barbour

Lincoln Barbour — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 22:09:42 +0000

Hey Nick,

I’d look up what Corbis or Getty would charge. It’ll help you figure how to ask the right questions about usage. If you get in a rut, reach out to Suzanne Sease (http://suzannesease.com/) She used to be an Art Buyer at the Martin Agency and so probably knows better than I do. She’s my photo consultant and I highly recommend her.

By: Nick Girard

Nick Girard — Fri, 23 Mar 2012 21:36:04 +0000

Thanks for the reply! Ironically I just received an email about using some of my photos for some TV bumps and other promotional material. This came unexpectedly and I am scrabbling to figure out how to handle this situation.

It would be for national broadcast. The photos are of an event. Not sure about the length of use. And I am sure if it is something that should be considered “advertising” or something else.

Pretty vague, but figured maybe you could give me at least an idea.

I found that John Harrington charges $2,680.00 for TV Stills, National 5 seconds.

http://johnharrington.com/dc-photographer/pricing/advertising-photography/

Seems expensive for my situation though, but maybe I am wrong.

By: Lincoln Barbour

Lincoln Barbour — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 22:21:43 +0000

Hey Nick, I don't know much about video, but what I've heard is that there are different rates based on your role. For example: a Director makes more than the Director of Photography, but the DP make more than a Camera Operator. I guess if you do your CODB, that should be your day rate for a Camera Operator. Then charge more to be a DP or Director. Maybe DP is 2X your CODB. Something like that. I really don't know what the going rates are, so it's hard for me to say. I also think that clients typically get unlimited rights to the video, because it only has one or two uses (broadcast or web) and it's significance is short lived. If a client wants to pull stills from your video for print or web usage, then that's when you would want to start charging usage rates. I'm not sure if your a member of ASMP or APA, but they have great forums on Yahoo and LinkedIn that might be helpful in getting pricing advice. Good luck!

By: Nick Girard

Nick Girard — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 18:59:49 +0000

Licoln,

Wow, this is great. I rarely will read an entire post plus all of it’s comments and then also comment, but this topic warranted it.

As a freelance videographer I believe this post is sound advice for my profession also. I am going to attempt to sit down and figure out my CODB and then create a fee schedule.

BUT I have one question. I am curious as to how things work with video and usage fees. I never really considered this until reading this post and don’t know how to approach it. 95% of the video work I have done has been used only on the web. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Nick Girard

By: Lincoln Barbour

Lincoln Barbour — Tue, 20 Mar 2012 17:58:08 +0000

Hey Jeff, I know what you mean about editorial gigs not paying your CODB. I’ve shot a lot of them personally in the past and will probably shoot some more in the future. Most of the time, the shoots are around a half day, so if I can make at least half my CODB, I feel okay about it.

Unfortunately, shooting editorial solely is no longer a viable way to make a income as a photographer. However, the portfolio opportunities, the exposure to art buyers, and the credibility you gain kind of justifies working at a loss. Plus, speaking from experience, many editorial jobs I’ve shot have led me to regular clients locally and beyond.

As my career has grown, I now say no to the ones that are just too low and have low portfolio value. But when I was starting out, I said yes to everything. That ended up in me working very hard for not much money. When I set my pricing based on my CODB, I priced myself out of some lower paying clients, but I get paid better from the clients that can afford me. Thus, I make better work and get better jobs from the experience and portfolio opportunities. It keeps going up and up. If you are known as the cheap photographer, you will always be the cheap photographer.

So, your CODB should be your goal and you should try to get it covered. Also, rather than look at as a daily fee, you could look at it from a weekly perspective. If you bill 3 jobs that meet your weekly CODB, then go for it. It really depends on where you are at in your career. How hungry are you for work?